Vincent Vernuccio is the President and co-founder of the Institute for the American Worker.

Federal Newswire: What is the Institute for the American Worker?

Vernuccio: We do federal labor policy, and our goal is full freedom for everyone in the workplace when it comes to federal labor law. We're talking about mostly private sector employees here. 

We educate Congress, stakeholders, and policy folks on worker freedom and bringing modern labor policy for a modern workforce. Letting people who want to work for themselves do so, and giving workers the ability to say, “this union's doing a good job, I want representation,” or "I want to represent myself.”

Federal Newswire: Do you have concerns about the labor rules under the Biden Administration?

Vernuccio: The main problem with the Biden-Harris administration [and] the Department of Labor is the Independent Contractor rule and some of the things that are coming out of the National Labor Relations Board, like their joint employee rule, or even the Protecting the Right to Organize Act.

If you want to be an independent contractor, you should be. If you want to work for several different small businesses, you should have that ability.

Federal Newswire: What's the goal of these policies?

Vernuccio: Well, the goal is to put employees in a box. 

The unions [are] pushing things like the AB5 in California that decimated the independent contractors out there. Voters in California said, “No, you've gone too far.” Even the bill sponsor of AB5 said, “We went too far,” and they started all these exemptions and essentially gutted the law.

Federal Newswire: What are the penalties for a business that wants to operate with independent contractors?

Vernuccio: They call it employee misclassification, and you could be hit with all sorts of penalties, fines, taxes, and a lot of issues, even if everybody agrees. That's the problem.

At companies like Uber and Lyft, most of the drivers want flexibility. They want to start working [while] kids go to school, be done by the time they get home, then maybe go [back] after the kids go to sleep or something like that. They want to be an independent contractor for that flexibility.

You look at a lot of the people like independent writers, or even people in the media who were freelance writers or working on films, they actually lost a livelihood. 

Federal Newswire: How should these policies catch up with modern life?

Vernuccio: Unions are stuck in this turn of the last century industrial revolution, a one-size-fits-all adversarial business model that most workers today don't want.

I do see a place for unions if they embrace a voluntary business model and become like professional service organizations. Unfortunately, they're not there. If you're under a union contract, you're stuck with the wages, the benefits, the vacations, [and] the hours they negotiate for you.

It's actually impossible for the employer to unilaterally say, “you're doing a great job, I'm going to give you a raise,” or “I'm going to give you a bonus,” or, “hey, you want more vacation for a little less money?”

Federal Newswire: Explain the status of the National Labor Relations Board.

Vernuccio: Let's start with the NLRB chair, Lauren McFerran, who is up for reappointment. President Biden announced her reappointment months before it expires. There have been OIG investigations [and] there's been a lot of people calling her management of the NLRB into question. 

If McFerran is reappointed, she serves a five year term no matter who is President. Not only that, but the Democrats on the board will keep a majority if she gets reappointed until the summer of 2026. 

So if she doesn't get reappointed, Republicans conceivably could get the appointment and flip the NLRB early next year. 

There's a decision called Cemex, which…says that if an employer asks for a [union representation] election, they can have the election. But if we find out the employer did something wrong, [the NLRB] can just take the rug out from under the workers and say, “yeah, you voted against the union, but we're recognizing them anyway.”

Federal Newswire: How do people find out what the Institute for the American Worker is doing?

Vernuccio: Visit our website: i4aw.org.

This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.