Gary Marx is the president of Defenders of Faith and Religious Freedom in Ukraine and is a volunteer faculty member at the Leadership Institute. He previously served as the executive director of the Judicial Crisis Network.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Federal Newswire: Did you ever think that you would be having to go on the ground to defend religious freedom in a place like Ukraine?
Marx: When I visited Ukraine in late June to be part of their national prayer breakfast and speak up for religious freedom, I didn't think that...this [would] be necessary.
I wouldn't have thought that the Putin regime could have miscalculated this badly. That was because I didn't understand the nature of the religious battles that were happening under the surface. The war within the Orthodox Church was serious and strong, and Russia's identity through the Russian Orthodox Church really convinced Putin to launch this holy war. That's how he sees it.
Federal Newswire: What are your thoughts on the importance of Kiev as a holy site and the cozy relationship between the Orthodox Church and the Russian government?
Marx: Putin has pushed forward this concept [that] the Russian world does not have any bounds in terms of borders. The state is first and foremost, and religion must serve the state. It is not the rule of law and religious freedom like we conceptualize in the West and [which] seems as natural as breathing.
In this case, the Russian Orthodox Church serves the state and they...view Kiev like many faiths view Jerusalem. They look at Kiev as the second most holy city in Europe. We [wouldn’t] understand that. They see it as the home of the Orthodox based faith.
When they think of launching this war and capturing Kiev, [the goal is not] to put a Russian flag over the parliament building. The Ukrainian parliament [is envisioning the] capture of the home of the Orthodox Church in Kiev.
I was there as part of the National Prayer Breakfast. We had a huge event with a thousand plus people and then across the street, we walked with a delegation and met with conservative religious leaders in this very place. We had a meeting in the home of the Orthodox Church. That's when I began to understand the spiritual significance, much like the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. This Russian world theology...is why Putin did what he did.
Federal Newswire: How does the past history of ancient conflicts play a role?
Marx: The idea of Kiev as a holy city [has deep] spiritual roots [that are] a thousand years old. There is a sense in this part of the world of a deep connection to the Christian church.
There's also the Russian idea of empire put into this. There are modern day martyrs who are dying for their faith because they're now viewed by Russia as Western agents who are allied with the Western church. In the occupied territories, there is not one evangelical or Baptist church that is operating. There is not one Catholic church that is now operating.
There's a huge segment of Greek Catholics. 22% of the country identifies that way, and there's not one of those places that is allowed to operate in occupied territory. I met two of these priests who were imprisoned in Russia and tortured. They sat at the table next to me at the National Prayer Breakfast. They had been released in an exchange. When you meet these people, you understand there are modern day martyrs who have paid a price for their faith, and that is because there is no faith allowed other than the Russian Orthodox Church.
Federal Newswire: What can be done when elements like the Russian Orthodox Church are undermining the state?
Marx: It's a very difficult situation because the Russian propaganda here has been very thick. The Orthodox Church in Ukraine has been infiltrated by Russian agents that are loyal to the [Federal Security Service (FSB)]. In Soviet times, if you had a church that was operating in the Soviet system, it was allowed. That's because the Orthodox minister [has] been approved and shown loyalty to the state. Just the way we view ministers and pastors isn't at all how they understand them. A lot of times those people were trained by the KGB or now the FSB to go in under cloaked robes and operate or report on troop movements to gather intelligence and send it back to Moscow. There is not a religious freedom principle...
Federal Newswire: Is it true that these Orthodox sites are under threat and are even being destroyed by the Russians?
Marx: There are more than 640 documented cases where churches have been destroyed or seriously damaged in the occupied areas. To put it in perspective, the percentage of territory the Russians have taken is 18% of Ukraine. If you put that on the American scale, that would be as if the entire Midwest had been taken over and occupied.
The price that has been paid by church buildings [and pastors] is astronomical. Any Evangelical, Baptist or Presbyterian churches [have] been confiscated and will be turned into Russian churches or Russian cultural centers. Crosses are taken down, the Russian flag is put up, and they'll have a ceremony by the new Russian installed mayor. This is all part of the propaganda process. It's horribly destructive because there is no understanding of rule of law and religious faith.
We look at it as a golden rule issue, whether we're Jewish, Muslim or Christian. We want to have all religious faiths treated as we'd like to be treated.
Federal Newswire: Is there a psychological impact that comes with destroying churches?
Marx: Yes. They're trying to destroy Ukrainian culture. There can't be a Orthodox Church of Ukraine for Ukrainians to worship. There can only be a place loyal to the Russian Orthodox Church and to the Patriarch in Russia.
It's a way to destroy the culture. There can't be a separate flag. If Putin was successful in Ukraine, then it just continues to Poland and the Baltics. [It is] an effort to reunite that entire Russian world which has no boundaries.
Federal Newswire: Is the issue about undermining the culture to make it more pro-Russia?
Marx: This concept of the Iron Curtain never completely died with the end of the Soviet Union, and it has not given up on having the Russian sphere of influence in all of these places. [Putin] is using...a coalition of evil, working with North Korea, China, Cuba and Iran, to manipulate, world powers so that he can expand that sphere of influence.
That's why they're in Africa with mercenary troops, trying to manipulate and bring down different regimes there. What's old is new again. This Cold War battle [is] back in a different way, but with very similar contours at work.
[One example of Western influence is Ukraine, who] has intentionally wanted to be Western oriented...I've met the legislative members of their parliament who had passed a law to make sure that Christmas was celebrated on the same December 25th date that the Western world celebrates. Now Christmas in Ukraine is celebrated then, not on the January date when the Orthodox Church calendar would have. There are these symbols that are very clearly...oriented to the West...That's why Putin can't allow it.
Federal Newswire: Are you just focusing on the religious side of things in Ukraine?
Marx: We want to tell the story of religious persecution because that's an untold story. [The reason we are] asking the American government and the American people to support Ukrainians is because they essentially disarmed with the understanding that we would be there to support them. They're not asking for our troops. They're not asking for American blood to be spent here. They're asking for us to come alongside them, because if they hadn't lost those nuclear weapons, you could argue Putin would have never marched in Brighton with the full-scale invasion the way he did in 2022, [and maybe not even] in 2014 in Crimea and the Donbas.
For our American audience, this is a ten-year-old recent incursion. The full-scale invasion was only two years ago. But all of this happened because they did disarm in that way in 1992 when they were making an effort to turn towards the West and [beginning] to adapt to Western principles of democracy and religious freedom.
[Ukraine is not perfect.] They still have difficult issues and corruption that they have to battle, but that was their perspective. [When Putin came into power,] Russia took a different track. They went back to their autocratic, dictatorial ways and the [idea of the] Russian world. That's why we've got to stand with the Ukrainian people and pray for the peace of Ukraine.
Federal Newswire: Why is there such a push back from conservatives against Ukraine?
Marx: There's a lot of scar tissue for some conservatives who are more of the Trump faction [concerning] difficulties with Ukraine and Zelensky. [The] much bigger part of it is just Russian propaganda and the success that they've had working on this for decades. They've never given up this fight.
[Unfortunately,] we are [going] to be late in waking up to this reality that they are part of a coalition of evil. They are not comfortable with the Pax Americana of the last eight years and the Pax Americana that's been guaranteed through NATO in Europe. [If you’re Ukraine] and there's a huge bully to your north, why would you [not want] to join that treaty organization of NATO which has been [arguably] the most effective and successful treaty organization in the history of mankind. Why would you not want to be a part of that group? Sure enough, they weren't a member, and they were invaded by Russia. They knew this bully to the north had dangerous intentions in mind the whole time.
Federal Newswire: What is the human cost of this conflict, specifically regarding parentless children?
Marx: A lot of people understand what's happened in Israel with Hamas abducting and kidnapping children and taking them back to Gaza, [but] what Russia has done is as big of a tragedy as any. [There are] almost 20,000 Ukrainian children that have been taken from their parents, from orphanages, [and] from places across the conquered territories in Ukraine...and removed. They're back in Russian reeducation camps [and] youth centers. They're going to be future fodder for Putin's war machine as they become old enough. We don't know what all the intentions of the Putin regime are, but we're talking about almost 20,000 children that [have been taken away from their parents’ homes].
There are groups working in the occupied territories right now to get these kids back and to make exchanges and so forth. This is an ongoing issue that hasn't got a lot of attention. But the reason you ask the question is to help expose and help us understand the nature of evil and the brutality of Putin's regime. This is how far they are willing to go. These tactics [were] once thought of as only Stalin level tactics. Those same kinds of things are back. The FSB and the Russian intelligence services are operating and it's a brutal occupation.
Federal Newswire: What is the extent of propaganda and misinformation during this war?
Marx: There is a propaganda battle that continues on a daily basis. The Russian people here are entirely controlled. There was recently a story about a Washington Post reporter...who went to an area of Russia where [they were approved] to meet with different leaders. The meeting was hosted by a Russian agent who's now a member of parliament named Maria Butina. Maria Butina was an agent that had infiltrated [Psychology Political Action Committee (PSY PAC)] years ago and was trying to act like a pro-Second Amendment Russian and was arrested and served prison time here. She was greeted back in Russia as a great hero and embraced by the state. [She] won a seat in Parliament and is still trying to manipulate the American media.
...The amount of propaganda [has allowed] the Russian state [to be] successful in controlling the narrative with their own people...They are very good at propaganda, [especially when you consider their efforts with international media].
Federal Newswire: In terms of religious freedom, how do you go about swaying people?
Marx: At Defenders of Faith and Religious Freedom in Ukraine, we have two parts. We educate American leaders in Washington DC who are going to make important decisions about aid to Ukraine, [such as] encouraging strong statesmen like speaker Mike Johnson to push [for aid] that supported not just Ukraine, but also Israel and Taiwan and our allies...
[The second part is] getting out to the states at the grassroots level. We've had tours with Ukrainian pastors and Ukrainian religious leaders that we've taken across the country to different conferences, events and churches.
An equally important part of this is doing the local radio and local media. We have to tell the truth of what's happening. I think most Americans, especially churchgoing Americans, can identify when these pastors, who really are part of the Bible Belt of Europe, tell these stories. That's what we're about, and [what] we're going to continue to stay focused on.
Federal Newswire: How do people find out about the work you do?
Marx: You can find us at: defendersoffaithukraine.com. The full name on different social media platforms like Instagram and so forth is defenders of Faith and Religious Freedom in Ukraine. A little bit of a mouthful but look at our logo and you'll find us.
